It has been recommended to leave a 1/4″ space for the flooring to allow for expansion when installing the subfloor over the Platon; is this necessary for foam as well? Our plan is to insulate the walls with blown-in closed cell foam, but not sure what to do for the basement floor. Install a layer of rigid foam board insulation such as. Foam is used under your roads especially near bridges. Going to be finishing basement and had questions about insulating the concrete floor. In that situation I wouldn’t recommend it as “decking” isn’t really structural. The stud walls will be 1/2 inch away from the XPS and so will the Dri-core. The breaker box is mounted on the wall in the proposed finished area, how do I best insulated around/behind without removing the box or creating moisture issues behind? 2. The insulation is in direct contact with the concrete. Floor tiles are too designed to bring the beauty of flooring and movement. With a fair amount of space to finish, cost is a consideration, but doing it right is a bigger one. I plan on using 1 1/2″ rigid foam panels on the walls before framing, but still am up in the air as to how to insulate the cellar floor. Hey Todd, I was wondering, if I’m going with the delta fl on the floor, do I drylok for “good measure”? I’m not crazy about putting carpet in the basement, but I’m not confident that I can get the floor level/flat enough for tile or laminate while leaving suitable headroom. Todd Thanks for the great article and advice. With flooring over it it will be quite stable. I’d appreciate your thoughts & suggestions. The second scenario would be if I go on the wall first, I would use the composite decking under the pressure treated plate, then finish the wall framing. Installer insists everything was done correctly but the image I have from before I left for work the day they did tile was that i believe plywood on the floor. The floor height issue is one that ultimately leaves many people opting out of insulating their basement floor. May be the substrate, may be the mortar mixed improperly, may be an improper substrate…it may be a LOT of things. 4. Professional Tile Installation Contractor Fort Collins and all of Northern Colorado. 1. Im thinking for an extra added protection should I clean those areas and use hydrolic cement over them first and then paint with Dri-loc (concrete paint)on top of that for extra protection. And would offset the cost of the composite material. I did not see the article, can you share the basic information and what your question is? 3. Of course, they were fine with either Delta-FL or Styrofoam for warmth. The house is almost 100 years old, and it looks like the floor is designed to channel water in either direction away from the middle. Thanks for the suggestion Todd. 2. What a product, and what helpful people on the phone! It seems like installing the XPS on the walls first (and across top of wall taping/foam all seams) then installing XPS on the floor (taping all seams and tape/foam at the wall junction) followed by T&G subfloor (4-6 tapcom per sheet) with 1/4″-1/2″ gap around wall perimeter for expansion would do the best at sealing the entire basement wall and floor (concrete) from the finished interior. Thinset is not used to adhere the backerboards in any way – it is used simply to fill voids beneath the backerboard. It’s partially finished, and the extra 1/4 I save (instead of 1 inch) allows me extra headroom and means I don’t have to trim anything off the existing doors. Thanks for the reply Todd. Will the conditioned air from the basement eventaully cause condensation problems with the cold basement floor (maybe lead to mold on the carpet from below?). Good luck. I would think adhesive would hold the Advantech to the foam board with no problem. The only downside is less insulation value and less protection from moisture. First a question: What are you going to cover the foam board with? Spray foam in a can is “open cell” (like Great Stuff) and would not work as a water barrier. Could I use dry-ply SIF 3/4 T&G? I am starting the design process and hoping you could help with a few questions. The grout loses the battle and starts to crack out. Use flowable fill to level the bathroom floor. By way of refresher I have a cement floor covered in old adhesive from tile that is covered by an epoxy paint. I bought 2″ xps for my basement walls and I bought Dricore 2 x 2 panels for my basement floor, but I have one question. 1/2″ will work if you don’t have sleepers. Todd – I think it sounds like a good plan. In fact, concrete needs water in order to continue the chemical reaction that creates strength. For every application there are specific spans of tile which can be installed before a ‘soft joint’ is required. As a single woman, I feel empowered to do great things to my home on my own. Dave – Thanks for the compliment. You can order them online at http://www.homedepot.com. I won’t disagree – you are the expert …. 6. 3) I really want to have a carpet free basement due to our cats. @ Jody – It really depends on how flat the floor sits. Reading your comments I plan on 1) putting down 1″ t&g Dow foam to the wall 2) tape the seams 3) put 3/4 t&g floor decking down leaving 1/4″ gap from the wall 4) use Great Stuff to fill the gap between the wall and the decking, The area is 15 X 25 and I can go from wall to wall without worry of the floor moving. I would weigh that option very carefully. John – If you install the foam first there’s no reason for the composite decking. If you use 3/4″ plywood I think regular XPS will be fine when it’s 1″ thick. I have a 50yr old ranch house 30′(ease&west)x40′(north&south)full cinder block walled basement and the whole slab slopes towards the middle of the north wall where a sump pit used to be and is covered in 12×12 vinyl tile. It is noticable and I’d like to fix it. This will cause cracking grout and, eventually, ‘tenting’ of your tile. First of all, your site is fantastic. I understand you have to have load bearing headers above the doors but is the rest of the framing normal? Then I would lay down the Dricore and get that set in place with a small gap from the wall to allow it to breathe. If you build the wall on top this is not necessary. Is it OK to bury the drain in the middle of the room with something like self-leveling compound? Hey Todd, Great info here. Do you see anything wrong with this method? What would you suggest, or would both work? At a loss of what to do and what’s right to do. For really dry basements you can put the foam directly down. Will those supports need to be pressure treated as they will sit on the foundation wall? Thanks for all of your help. No issue…you may need to add blocking to help with base trim. Your situation is not all that uncommon. I recommend a vapor barrier under any type of wood, carpet or non tile flooring. Ones closer to walls and tub took a little more effort to remove. I haven’t seen the problem here in New England so I’m not aware of any particular solutions or problems. Should I use a vapor barrier? Does this seem like a reasonable option? However, you’ll have a very warm comfortable floor and a whole lot less moisture in your basement. The Sleepers are not necessarily needed. I would leave the gap open, that way if any water does get behind the XPS is will fall into that gap. I have one additional question: I had some wetness a cinder block wall, so I had an internal weeping tile installed with a dimpled membrane that goes up the wall. There is some load bearing framing in the basement. It will oxidize and corrode. Should the insulation set on top of the DRIcore or extend all the way to the concrete floor? The top edge of the membrane wasn’t sealed in any way by the contractor. Can I leave fiberglass in rim joists as is, should I add XPS foam over, or should I remove then replace with XPS foam? If you’re going to frame in front of concrete then you need to follow my post on insulating a basement wall (2″ foam, continuous, behind the framing), then you can fill the stud bay with fiberglass (skip a vapor barrier, the foam does that). This situation has been unchanged since I moved in and I don’t see any cracking outside the joints and have not had any moisture issues. Hiring a contractor just to demolish a 12 x 14-ft. patio could cost you $1,400 or more. Condensation. That’s it – wow. Ann – Glad to hear you’re doing the foam on the walls. Thanks Again Demetri. I’d recommend a 6 mil poly vapor barrier, then the foam. what do you recommend for both the floors and the concrete walls ? Nico – Thanks for the compliment. Or you can visit an associate in store at the ProDesk to place a special order.”. Thanks Todd. If you’re worried about height than removing the tile will help. Any inspector that questions it, doesn’t really know the subject well enough. The walkout basement will use your scheme for insulating the ground floor (2″ XPS) and walls (1″ XPS and 3.5″ fiberglass cavity). The previous owner did a hack job when building the, and I have spent the past few weeks tearing out all the fiberglass insulation because it was full of mice and smelled like mildew. First off, I live in Minnesota, where it has been hot and humid recently. So…do you need a barrier on top? Thank You again for all of your time and expertise. When slab insulation is provided, a sheet polyethylene vapor barrier should be located over the rigid insulation and in direct contact with the concrete slab. Thank you again for helping the general public with your insight. – Penetration the vapor barrier: You are correct that this isn’t ideal, however, even with the screws the difference in vapor transmission will be significant. If you need to level it there are many options. I would lay a sheet of poly down first, even though you’ll be drilling or shooting fasteners through it into the concrete. 6) Do you think I can go without gluing and nailing and let gravidy do the work? The issue here is keeping that moisture away from materials that might promote mold. I would use a piece of self adhering waterproofing 4-6″ wide, stick it to the lower couple of inches of plywood, then drape it down over the concrete. I would install blocking between the rim joist and first joist, up off the concrete, then no need. You just need to compare pricing and what options are most important to you. I did a little research, and it doesn’t seem DIY friendly…. Eventually we decided to remove all the tiles and the mortar and redo (almost) everything. (Height issues). do i overlap the spray foam directly on the plywood, or will this introduce a path for moisture to try to escape (note: i’m planning on using non-treated plywood since it will not be in contact with concrete)? Thank you for the quick response. Concrete Mortar Dissolver can be used to remove dried on cement, concrete, mortar or stucco from most surfaces. The floors can be quite comfortable that way as well. 1/2″ foam isn’t going to do much. Thanks for the great advice, it’s working! Any potential leakage would still get to the drain and there would be an air gap too. Foam held in place with screws that go through AdvanTech to concrete (so 2 1/2 ” long??? Your approach sounds good but I think there is one problem. Do I need to be concerned about installing tile over this subfloor ? I was then going to use 1 1/2″ foam board on the concrete walls and build my 2 x 4 walls with batt insulation inside the foam board on the walls and on top of the T & G OSB. Is the fiberglass in direct contact with concrete? ), Read How to Install Backerboards for Floor Tile, How to Install Suntouch WarmWire In-Floor Heating Part 2. Basement walls are typically about 50 to 60 degrees year round. But I was reading some other blog not to use it because pressure would build up and shift the foundation. I think this will make for a pretty dry floor without any moisture wicking through. will i lose my semi-vapor barrier if the stud is on the concrete? Whereas the DRIcore doesn’t need to be fastened down. 2. Depending on the age of the tile there is a very good chance it contains asbestos. You can try it, I’m not sure you’ll like the results. But frankly I doubt it makes much difference. Since it is a T&G, this means that screws need to put pn the edges or you need to put tapcons all around each board. You recommend putting in sleepers, which concentrates the floor weight on particular sections of the foam board. I’d do it in my own home. The main beam running under my floor joists in the center of the basement is low. Good luck! Be careful not to exert too much pressure downward on the tile, or you could cause it … Will this last? I am using 3/4 inch Dri-core panels on the floor because I dont’have any headroom to spare. I stand corrected! Instead of cutting tapered ones I’d run them perpendicular to the slope and cut each row a different thickness. The floor will be put down first, then the walls. If installing tile directly to concrete (and you should not) there needs to be a soft joint directly above, or two inches on either side, of the slabs expansion joints. 2. And is it possible to avoid OSB entirely? install carpet on the Dri-core. Elizabeth – 2-1/2″ Tapcon screws should do the trick or you could try using powder actuated masonry nails. Insulating basement walls in cold climates is a great way to keep your home warmer and drier. Great site and info. Couple questions for you as i’m thinking of laying carpet in my basement (there’s existing tile) but want an insulated floor: 1) I assume you recommend removing the tile first? Also what do you with the walls around them ? Thanks! Not in my opinion for areas with tile. My third and final question is regarding the current framing in the basement. some yes to osb, some no. Greg – The poly helps keep down moisture. I am looking ahead and I’m thinking about putting a laminate hardwood down. DriCore has a more significant “open” space under it. More than likely it is simply installed improperly probably by someone that did not know any better. Elizabeth – That method sounds fine. So just an FYI for people that are thinking of doing this. I have a home that was built in 1920, Chicago, with cinder block foundation. 2. We’d like to finish the front section of our basement (11′ x 17′ x 80”) in our 1880 fieldstone foundation New England home to use as play space and exercise room. Foam and concrete are not food sources for mold so mold will not grow back there. The sleeper version works well when there is a chance of a bit of water. Vs trying to get the plywood to lay flat by Tapcon’ing it. Although the energy savings of sub-slab insulation are not as significant as basement wall insulation, such insulations do offer a significant improvement in comfort and moisture damage resistance (including against summertime condensation). Put the non-load bearing walls on top of the AdvanTech. We’ve actually done it both ways. Also, have you ever heard of SuperSeal? – Use some of the sub-floor products like: DRIcore, TYROC , these will give you separation from the concrete with no insulation. 2. Due to the layout of the stairs we cannot get big items into the basement. I would like to thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. The subfloor tiles are really great for folks with little DIY experience and clearance issues as they provide one of the thinnest insulated options. Thanks for any feedback! Any ideas on how to solve this? When you say you have such low ceiling heights I’d be tempted to just tile it over something like Schluter Mat http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/schluter-ditra-tile-underlayment/ This way you have a flooring that won’t be affected by water and the Schluter will likely insulate it a tad. All the cool kids are doin’ it. I planned to lay on side longways like sheetrock then cut sheets to fit at top. “All Dow Spray Foam including Enerfoam, Great Stuff and Froth Pak brands are closed-cell foam.” http://www.theenergyconscious.com/greatstuff-dow.html. and all the holes are no big deal. In your situation you might want to consider not insulating the floor or possibly installing an electric radiant heat system covered with a thin layer of flowable fill. Focus on controlling humidity and air exchanges. It’s almost impossible to “seal” out water due to the pressure. 2. similarly, where my plywood stops at the floor joists above, how do i transition the insulation here? Set tiles into tacky dry adhesive. My son, Tim, found some 12-inch floor tiles to use for the countertop. Hello, Am currently insulating the basement of our new home using your system. I am using 1 inch foam with 23/32 T&G advantec board for my subfloor. I don’t think they carry the 250 in 1″ size (or at least not in stock….however they do have 3/4″ 250 in stock). Yes you can skip the sleepers and do foam then plywood. 2. Then did batt insulation and vapor barrier and then drywall. i’m the guy that is doing a seismic retrofit that involves putting plywood on the inside face of the exterior pony wall studs. not a problem?? That would be slick! Will the hidden future water problems be related to both floor and wall insuation or just one? The only other question is whether you have lots of moisture under the slab, do you have under slab drains? 3. place 1″ foam on the floor, all the way to the concrete walls 4. place 3/4″ T&G plywood on top of the foam, stopping such that i have about 1″ between the spray foam and the plywood. putting water pressure tank in barn room, should I lay 6ml poly on concrete then foamboard then sleepers or put the foamboard down first then poly then sleepers? We used to get water in one corner during rainstorms but believe that replacing the driveway has resolved that problem (no water in past 18 months), at least for now. With regard to leveling the floor, I spoke to a construction engineer friend of mine and he said that if I follow your method, the Tapcon screws will pull the sleepers and shims tight to the concrete floor but the portions of the sleepers in between the screwed-down points will be slightly higher, like a pincushion. I’ll have to you tube how to go from there. It really depends on your budget, the level of comfort you want, etc. Should I frame first then fill the left over concrete floor with the rigid foam. Features a black metal frame with a concrete tray-like top. http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/how-to-insulate-basement-walls/, Todd- Fantastic website! James – I’d probably put down a vapor barrier first, then the Delta FL. What about the walls? 2. If they had left the water on and damaged everything, it might have been covered. Best of luck. First off not sure exactly what an asphalt tile is. I’d just install the foam board and move on. This is because it deep cleans carbon stains and ground-in soils bring a new fresh look to your floor. would you put polyurethane before a floating floor? Do you have any articles or videos on building a load bearing wall in the basement? My hub’s an architect and saw that in Fine HB so I’ll showcase it for him. Using the foam board as a water barrier (2″ wall or 1″ floor) I would eventually need to seal off areas that aren’t tight or where obstructions (pipe, drains, outlets, etc.) I’ve seen 3/4″ T&G OSB be recommended…also have seen 3/4″ T&G Sturdi-floor plywood for ~$17. the sill plate there is likely treated (though i have yet to open the wall to verify). I think it’s fine, I’d probably more the sleepers to 12″ center to center though. Do NOT try and plug it off as you may need it someday. Does this technique seem like a sound way of tying into existing insulated walls? It’s why I write the articles. If it were my house I’d remove it and install XPS or Foil Faced PolyIso in the rim joist area. Sarah – Those details will depend on the flooring manufacturers installation guidelines. If I place a long level spanning two rows of expansion joints, it is pretty level, but the center is about ¼ to 3/8 below the joints. If so…i’d leave a small gap between plywood and top of wall (plywood needs to be attached to plate for seismic so not a big gap). should i reuse this and lay down the 1″ XPS over the top of it? I was hoping that inslulating the floor and walls would stop the moiture problem. He has installed and is still installing it but he has also seen many cases of ant infestation with the ants boaring tunnels into the XPS and doing something with the contents – moving it, eating it, who knows. I’d love to hear all about it when you’re finished. If you get an answer be sure to share with everyone here! I’ve had small periodic leaks from the windows and the first floor in high winds and every time I get it fixed it seems like another pops up in a year or two. Hi Todd, great site. David – I wouldn’t put them over the laminate. Ryan – Thanks for the kind words. There is a gap it looks like for the water to go down. And I am not usre what pressure treated sleepers are and am unsure if it is necessary. Thanks for all the info. However, a quick scan of their site seems as though they don’t warranty for direct contact with earth which is pretty similar to direct contact with concrete in my experience. 1. At the very least I would highly recommend using AdvanTech as the sub-floor as it’s manufactured to deal with water and moisture. If your tile is on concrete – directly on concrete – your slab may not have proper expansion joints or the tile installation did not honor those. 1) Insulating basement floor – planning 1″ xps with 7/16th OSB. 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