chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. I had my little leaflet, printed off leaflet about choroid plexus cysts. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. The appointment usually takes around 30 minutes. The results come in stages. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. But with time although we will never forget, I know we will be ok again. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. Only this time, no cry came. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan. As I waited for the doctor back on the EPU unit. The chances that anything bad will be discovered are v v small. I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. She describes having to make a . Not surprisingly, people aren't quite sure how to deal with me. It was interesting - well it was fantastic to see this fetus and to see this child that was yours that was horribly ill - but you didn't really get much opportunity to see that because the consultant was more about measurements and all sorts of blood flow and various other screens coming up. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. See you in -. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. I pray it's just her heart but I can't see anything else is wrong as I have been scanned by a consultant since I was 14 weeks and every time he has said everything looks okay and she is growing consistently. Enough for two weeks after he had been cremated. I want to be nice again. So I trusted him. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Anyway we went in for the meeting with the consultant on this particular time, and we'd got to, I was 30 weeks pregnant by then. My partner's face was lit up, seeing the baby for the first time. So it was quite common, this is what happens. At this point it wasn't looking great. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. Find more information and details of support groups on NHS.UK. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see '. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. It was positive, and I felt elated. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). My heart goes out to you OP. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. There was cause for concern. It was all going wrong and I wanted to get as far away from the hospital as possible. She didn't want to see the baby. I didn't have a clue. . It felt as if we'd gone underground, that we were part of the criminal fraternity. The doctor didn't come. I think it's the same - in fact I think it was probably the same room, same consultant - and [sighs] I suppose it felt upsetting because at the dating scan you're full of hope and this scan we knew wasn't going to be good, we knew it was maybe the last time we would see the baby moving around. I was another one who did get bad news at the 20 week scan. Check benefits and financial support you can get, Find out about the Energy Bills Support Scheme, NHS fetal anomaly screening programme (FASP), Screening tests for you and your baby (STFYAYB), nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3, more information and details of support groups. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. My partner really wanted me to, and by that time I had no sense of what was right or what I should do. Went off for the 20-week scan, which you didn't, you weren't there, were you, for the first scan? Chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet How was that scan different from the dating scan? I had to be rescanned latter. We were denying him his life. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. And I went for, I went for a normal 12-week scan, at my local hospital and everything, they said everything was fine, there was no problem. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. I've realised that being a nice person is a luxury some can't afford. For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. We need to have your opinion'. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. But before he could speak, he, too, had broken down. Slightly marked from our peers. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. Rather sharply, my partner tried to explain. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. He had to come to the decision by himself. On the third day, we got a phone call. It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". . That was an extremely difficult day. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. I ran into the bedroom to tell Sam, who was ecstatic. But they didn't. Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. The weeks since that day have been very weird. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). They would then re-test me in two days time. I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. Then I picked myself up. And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? Immediately I knew what decision we should take. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. Laura miscarried her twin babies in February. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. On the next shift, the new midwife asked us again. The consultant explained that this was just very bad luck and not, as far as they knew, genetic. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. Intellectually, I knew this was not the case. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. We didn't name him. The "why me?" She endured many agonising rounds of scans and tests, and unfortunately met with some unhelpful attitudes from some healthcare professionals. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. So we went home, me to rest in an attempt to prevent miscarriage, my partner to reassure us both. My partner was away working and was waiting to hear whether he was having a son or daughter. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. Ending a pregnancy for fetal abnormality - The 18-20 week antenatal The sonographer then passes a hand-held probe over your skin to examine the babys body. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan . And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. And I knew there was no way out. But other than that everything was fine. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. Baby loss support I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. At the time the same thing had, exactly the same thing had happened to my friend a month before, and her scan was absolutely fine. We saw the consultant, who was reassuring, saying that he would rescan me and was sure everything would be fine. As I say, I'm not a very nice person at the moment. I was young, I didn't need one. . I was then told yet again bad news. Do you have any thoughts about that? We scattered his ashes over a bunch of snowdrops. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. Just that really! Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. The following is a quote from their report: If the scan reveals either a suspected or confirmed abnormality, the woman should be informed by the sonographer at the time of the scan. We, I was with my mum, and they scanned and found choroid plexus cysts on the brain, which is just a mark, it's a marker on the brain, it's a, what they call a 'soft marker'. The milk came and stayed for what seemed like for ever. Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. It can be such a shock so do whatever you need to feel better. I noticed the box of tissues on the table. Purpose of screening. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. But no. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. I endured 12 hours of medication and in the early hours February 7, 56 days after my first scan (at nearly 18 weeks), I miscarried our babies. We both thought we would like some good to come out of this horrible experience, so wanted to talk to somebody about the possibility of using the body for research purposes. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. You can change your cookie settings at any time. I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. I was booked back in to discuss management options, if nothing had happened. This might be uncomfortable. Maybe. He told me that they may want to do blood tests, but that 'he didn't see the point'. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. This was on the Friday. I think there might be a problem'. Many described how sonographers and doctors were very restrained and didn't speak at all until they had analysed all the baby's details. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. Originally I hadn't wanted to go down that road. The scan will look in detail at your babys bones, heart, brain, spinal cord, face, kidneys and abdomen. I just feel very unlucky. I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. No sort of questions about, 'Do you want to know whether it's a boy or a girl?' Entering the labour ward, I waited for someone to say, "Go home, you are 16 weeks too early." It is a noise that will stay with me for ever. I remained positive, we researched lots of cases of mistaken dates, inconclusive scans, and compared them to our situation; scrutinising everything to try and believe it was all one big misunderstanding. I was then told yet again bad news. These opinions do not represent the opinions of Tommys and are not advice from Tommy's. We didn't feel we could tell anyone what was happening. Can you remember that minute. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. As I left the room to compose myself. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. I want to be happy again. I came back probably about 17 weeks pregnant and had the anomaly scan at 20 weeks and like most people expected everything to be fine and to come away with a lovely picture but unfortunately that isn't what happened. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. Our position in our families has shifted. It doesn't remove the guilt, but I don't know what else to do. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. Scans cannot find all conditions. An hour passed and I started to panic. We felt as if we were in limbo. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. I felt crushed, I wanted him to at least acknowledge what had been found already. And in this instance the scan was very evident that there was something very seriously wrong. Which she reassured us that she'd be absolutely fine, this was a one-off. I had a horrible feeling of relief. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. But it was very evident. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. There was complete silence during the scan. So choroid plexus cysts on their own, no problem, but if there's something else wrong, then that's a problem. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. And then I can't remember an awful lot more about that scan apart from that feeling of searching of how to react in an unknown situation - your brain's kind of trying to work out what to say, what to do, but I had no idea what to say or what to do and I think my first thought was, does that mean our first daughter's okay? I didn't want to be convincing him to agree with me. I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. But now that's changed. We decided that we wanted medication to help me. But he was not sure. And I can, the words that the scanning member of staff used, "Everything's fine", will stay with me forever. I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. We've got the same battle scars. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. I give pregnant women dirty looks. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. Well, at the regional hospital it was a 3-D scan. So I no longer trusted my instincts. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. You've had, you've had your Down's Syndrome check and that's okay. So at 20 weeks I went for my scan with my husband, with my daughter, to get our photographs. Tears started to roll down my face. I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before. But worse was to come. A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. Very occasionally this second scan cannot be completed, for example because: In this case you will not be offered another screening scan but you will offered an all over physical examination for your baby after birth. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really. I was sat on the sofa working, my son was at nursery and my partner was in the bath. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. I remember thinking, 'that doesn't look quite right'. At that point, I got very not upset but quite sort of strongly severe sort of with the people at the hospital saying, 'Look, you know, that's 24 hours, possibly a 48 hours' wait - that's not something that's tenable. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. So we went home really and I sort of had to think about it all night. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. I remember thinking, 'Gosh' I now know it was a girl, I didn't know that then, that, 'She looks just like her brother'. There are no known risks to your baby or the mother from having an ultrasound scan but it is important that you consider carefully whether or not to have the 20-week scan. I was becoming numb to the whole process. My belly was growing and I was feeling great. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. If you are offered further tests, you will be given more information about them so that you can decide whether or not you want to have them. He looked excited. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). I feel empty and incomplete. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. He bluntly told me, he wasn't interested in whatever was seen before, he was only going to go by what he saw that day. This short video explains screening for 11 physical conditions in pregnancy. To help us improve GOV.UK, wed like to know more about your visit today. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. The clinic advised a follow up scan the week after, to check on progress and to see what to do next. 26/09/2019 22:46. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. And it all seemed so near at hand, you know, 31, 30 weeks, you feel like you're nearly, you're on the home stretch. And that was scanning up from the above the head, then you were coming up through the child's head, so you were seeing the chambers in the brain, sort of it was evident in all four chambers of the brain, then suddenly one chamber was empty. The consultant at the time wasn't really that interested in that imagery. And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . Some say this estimate is really below the reality, and the out-of-pocket average costs are higher. Tommys is a registered charity in England and Wales (1060508) and Scotland (SC039280). And how wrong could they be? Getting through the 20 week scan - My BabyManual You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. Sam followed and I broke down. I had to wait yet another sleepless night. Some of the other conditions, such as heart defects, are more difficult to see. And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. It feels very lonely and isolating. So I lay on the bed and my partner sat next to me. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. And there [sighs] was a very dark patch over one, where the eye socket was, and they didn't know it, in the Edward's babies sometimes the eyes don't develop properly, or it might have been bleeding, they weren't very sure.